Since my introductory post the following has transpired as documented at anthrogenica.com. As anthrogenica.com site recently went down, I felt it important to have a backup location for this information.
06-23-2015: As my father didn't have any close y-dna matches in the US centric FTDNA database, I wondered if my paternal line descended from a group in Britain with little to no political, religious, or economic incentive to migrate to the US. I was kind of on the right track, but not quite. I would later learn my paternal line probably immigrated to England for political, religious and/or economic reasons. More on this later.
July 2015: I used ysearch.org (no longer available) to create an account that only contained STR values that my father's kit shared with his only other match on his current terminal branch FGC12401/Y9080. I noticed that one of the perfect matches for y9080 also was one of my father's closet 67 marker matches...although too distant to show up on FTDNA. Mr. A. Guess' genetic distance was 10 so he wouldn't show up as a 67 marker match. I contacted Mr Guess and he agreed to take a SNP test at yseq for one of the 6 SNPs on my terminal branch. I requested FGC12401 be created using yseq's wishlist function for this purpose.
09-06-2015: I learned Mr Guess was positive for the FGC12401/Y9080 SNP, so he was my father's closest y-dna match, and would remain so for the next 6 years. Later estimates would place our shared time to our most recent common ancestor (TMRCA) at around 1286 AD.
09-30-2015: Mr Guess orders an in-depth SNP test from Full Genome Corp (FGC). This test will identify how many SNPs are shared between Mr Guess and my father.
12-08-2015: Sent in my father's FGC test in for results. It arrives at lab on 1-12-2015.
01-22-2016: I discussed on anthrogenica.com how Mr Guess's closest STR y-dna matches go back to Brough, Westmorland in the 1740s. The U152 y-dna haplogroup is found in higher percentages in northern England, especially in Westmorland and Durham. Additional testing will be needed that this is a SNP match, and not just a STR coincidence.
04-23-2016: My father's paternal half sister's 23andme test results are published, which helps me identify additional paternal line matches and dna segments.
04-28-2016: I come up with a technique to identify paternal grandfather (PGF) and paternal grandmother (PGM) line autosomal segments for my father and his paternal half sister. If my father's half sister matches one of these PGM cousins on a segment on chromosome 1-22, and doesn't match my father, then be default my father's paternal matches on these segments had to be from his PGF line because if they were PGM matches then he would match his half sister and PGM cousin on these segments.
06-16-2016: Mr Alex Guess's FGC test results come in. On 7-03/2016 my father's results for his FGC test come in. Later analysis will identify 30-40 previously private SNPs that Alex shares with my father, resulting in the creation of the FGC12401>FGC12384 branch.
09-29-2016: Mr O. Adamthwaites' Z49 pack test results come in and he is confirmed to be positive for FGC12384 and FGC12385 SNPs, which means his STR match to Mr Guess is valid as he is also on the Mitchell/Guess FGC12401>FGC12384 branch.
12-10-2016: I created this mitchellsince1893 blog
01-05-2017: Mr Alex Guess' FTDNA 111 marker test results come in and he becomes my father's for 111 marker match.
06-17-2018: On anthrogenica.com, I frustratingly wonder why my father has no close dna matches. "I've previously proposed various ideas e.g. no economic, political, religious reasons to leave...they were doing just fine in England. Or my paternal line produced few if any brotherly branches or a combination of both. Another possibility is the line is rare e.g. Welsh or Irish U152, or originated in a country with little immigration or dna testing e.g. Huguenot immigrant from France." 3 years later, this thought in bold would turn out to be accurate.
09-13-2018: My father and his paternal half sister's ancestry.com results come out. Based on their ancestry compositions, I estimate their father (grandson of my mystery man), would have been "36% Ireland & Scotland". On paper, he's 15.6% Scottish, so this results causes me to comment on anthrogenica.com that "this might indicate the mystery man had significant Scottish & Irish ancestry to make of the difference between 36% and 15.6%. 3 years later I would learn that this was indeed the case.
11-03-2018: I post the following on anthrogenica.com "In a family Bible, filled out by my father's mother in 1965, she put down Edward Leopold Mitchell's mother as "Margaret Atkins" and father as "John Rintoul Mitchell" but this wasn't correct. "Margaret Atkins" was really "Elizabeth Margaret Wilhelmina Mitchell" (source for my surname). "John Rintoul Mitchell" was actually her father. My father had no idea why his mother put this in the Bible, and until last week, neither did I. In 1992 I discovered in the 1891 England census (just 1.5 years prior to Edward Leopold Mitchell's conception), that Elizabeth Margaret Mitchell and family were living next door in Fulham, London to a Charles Joseph Atkins and family. Since then Charles Joseph Atkins (or a close Atkins relative) has been a prime candidate for the "mystery man"...possible surnname, at the right place and time. In 1909, EMM comes to the US from England, and is listed as "Elizabeth Mitchell" on the ship's roster. In the 1910 US census (taken on April 15th 1910), she is listed as "Eliza Mitchel", living in Mobile, Alabama. I knew that some time between 1910 and 1920 census she married a William A. Whitcomb, but couldn't find a marriage certificate for them. Fast forward to last week when I discovered a Mobile, Alabama marriage certificate dated Feb 4th, 1913 for "William A. Whitcomb. To my surprise his bride is listed as "Margaret Wilhelmina Atkins (widow). So that's how the "Margaret Atkins" name ended up in my Family Bible. But why was she going by that name? I've searched and found no marriage between an Atkins man and Mitchell woman in the US or UK that would work. Plus as I mentioned, less than 3 years prior she is going by "Elizabeth Mitchell" I guess it's possible she could have gotten married, her Atkins husband died, and then she got remarried all in the span of 33 months, but I doubt it, as there is no record of this marriage. This new information motivated me to find a living relative/descendant of this Charles Atkins in the 1891 census. Previous efforts on my part had failed to make any head way. Keep in mind that Charles Atkins might not have necessarily been the mystery man...maybe he had a visiting unmarried Atkins cousin. As I mentioned, since 1992 Charles Joseph Atkins (or close male relative) has been a front runner to be the mystery man. That all changed today. Over the last week I've been in conversation with a person who's spouse descends from Charles Joseph Atkins paternal grandfather. The spouse has tested at ancestry.com and would be a 4th cousin to my father and my father's paternal half sister (assuming Charles Atkins or a 1st cousin was the mystery man). This person doesn't match either one of them, nor do they match my father's paternal half niece (all 3 of my relatives have tested at ancestry.com). According to this site https://isogg.org/wiki/Cousin_statistics there's a 71% chance that 4th cousins will match on ancestry.com. Also the site states there's a 30.7% probability that no detectable dna relationship exist between two random 4th cousins. So what is the probability that this Charles Atkins relative wouldn't match any of my 3 ancestry.com kits? I estimate it to be around 15%. As it stands, Charles Joseph Atkins or close male relative aren't looking like good candidates to be the mystery man."
11-08-2018: Quote from anthrogenica.com "Update: Leaving no stone unturned; this Charles Joseph Atkins relative is a direct male line descendant of Charles J. Atkins paternal grandfather. He has graciously offered to take a y-dna test. This will conclusively determine whether or not my paternal line descends from this particular Atkins line. I am very grateful to him. Should know something by the end of the year." I'm 95% sure it's going to be negative results for the 3 SNPs on my branch that are included in the test...but I still need to eliminate this possibility.
01-30-2019: On anthrogenica.com "The results are in and they are negative for the descendant of Charles Joseph Atkin's paternal grandfather. The tester is apparently I1-M253. So my #1 contender for the mystery man since 1992, Charles Joseph Atkins and his paternal Atkins relatives are removed from the "mystery man" list. Back to the drawing board. Not sure what my next move is. Maybe there isn't one...just sit back and wait, hope, and pray." My prayers would be answered 2.5 years later.
08-10-2019: Alex Guess' BigY700 results are available. Results help further refine shared SNPs and age estimates.
02-03-2020: Got the updated results from my father's livingdna.com test he took a few years earlier. Great Britain and Ireland 100%. South Wales Border 21.7%, Ireland 16.3%, Southeast England 13.7%, Lincolnshire 13.4%, North Wales 11%, Central England 9.3%, Cornwall 5.6%, South Central England 3.6%, Northumbria 2.1%, Aberdeenshire 1.9%, Northwest England 1.4%.
I comment on anthrogenica.com "My father and his paternal half sister have this unexplained ancestry from the Dublin area on 23andme. On ancestry.com my aunt has 25% Scottish & Irish and my dad has 35%. In summary for my dad: Livingdna has a total Scottish & Irish percentage is 18.2%. Adding Northern England raises it to 21.7%. Ancestry.com has it at 35%. Paper trail is around 15% Scottish & Irish. Even if the mystery man was 100% Irish, this would raise paper trail to 27% Irish." So I kept seeing these unexplained Irish ancestry results in multiple dna tests, which don't match my father's and his paternal half sister's known ancestry. This would make sense ~1.5 years later.
02-29-2020: from anthrogenica, "I am finding matches to Irish segments on my father's paternal grandfather segments. I'm using myheritage, genome mate, and dna painter to assist in this process. Being that I have a good paper trail for his paternal grandfather's mother known ancestry (62.5% Eastern Scotland, 15.625% England 18.75% India, and 3.125% Ulster-Scot), while these Irish segments could partially be from his 0.4% Ulster-Scot ancestry (on paper 3.125% Ulster-Scot great grandmother = 0.4% for my father), it very well may be that the mystery man paternal great grandfather had significant Irish ancestry." That would later turn out to be accurate.
05-19-2020: Got the livingdna test results for my father's paternal half sister. "Great Britain and Ireland 100%, South Wales Border 15.60% South Wales 14.60%, East Anglia 14.50%, N. Ireland & SW Scotland 9.20%, North Wales 8%, Lincolnshire 6.70%, Ireland 6.50%, Southeast England 6.30%, Aberdeenshire 5.70%, Devon 4.30%, Northumbria 3.80%, South Central England 3%, South Yorkshire 1.70%...Their Irish average is 11.40%. This seems much higher than it should be as they have little known ancestry from within the Republic of Ireland (they do have some N. Irish ancestry). So, I'm not quite sure what to make of that."
08-13-2020: "From post#1 in this thread 'When my great great grandmother Elizabeth Margaret Mitchell came to the US in 1909, she traveled with and lived in the US with a William Keeling Syson (WKS), his wife and their daughter. WKS was born in 1870 in Manchester, England and immigrated to the US in 1894. In 1909 WKS' daughter got sick on a trip to England and EMM traveled to the US with them as the family nurse. She was living with the Syson family in the 1910 census. I've wondered if WKS also might be the father...' Quote From a few weeks ago 'Good news. A descendant of one my mystery men candidates recently contacted me out of the blue and has ordered a 23andme test. I don’t have permission to say more, but will keep you all posted.' The results came in yesterday. There was no match to my father or his paternal half sister to this descendant of William Keeling Syson. So I can remove him from the list of possible mystery men."
11-13-2020: "Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post 'I guess now is as good of a time as any to start this thread. I'm looking to leverage the expertise here to help me solve a family mystery. I've been trying for most of my adult life to determine the identity of my father's paternal great grandfather. My surname "Mitchell" came from my father's paternal great grandmother, Elizabeth Margaret Mitchell (EMM). She gave her illegitimate son the name Edward Leopold Mitchell (ELM) when he was born in 1893 (hence my user name). Pertinent facts: 1. Edward Leopold Mitchell (died in Chicago in 1969) was born at the Fulham Workhouse Hospital (51.487140°, -0.219982°), in Fulham, London, England on 18 Jun 1893. The English birth certificate shows the mother, Elizabeth Margaret Mitchell of 20 Green Lane, but the father's name is left blank. I haven't found a 20 Green Lane but there is a 20 Parsons Green Lane (51.476547°, -0.201211°) and a 20 Broad Green Lane ( 51.494003° -0.224001°). Parsons Green Lane is near the hospital, while Broad Green Lane is near her home in the 1891 census...' The above quote is from the first post in this thread. After 28 years, I think I finally figured out where 20 Green Lane was located. The birth certificate say the mother was living at 20 Green Lane, Hammersmith. There is no Green Lane in Hammersmith and I could never find any evidence for this family in Fulham/Hammersmith after 1891 census...very frustrating. Tonight, I thought that I really needed to find some evidence of where Elizabeth Margaret Mitchell and family was living between the time of the 1891 census and my next known address in 1897 (when her father, John Rintoul Mitchell died in Wandsworth, London (Fulham is just north of the Thames River and Wandsworth is just south of the Thames). The Family has previously lived in Wandsworth in the late 1880s before moving to Fulham. So I researched her youngest brother Charles William Mitchell on ancestry.com. I found his baptismal record, which showed his birth date (9/19/1885) and his parents, John Rintoul Mitchell & Minnie Hester Mitchell so I knew I had the right Charles William Mitchell. I started looking at London school admission records around 1892 and 1893 for "Charles Mitchells". Normally this would be a needle in a hay stack situation, with possibly hundreds of Charles Mitchells in London schools. I found a school admissions record for a "Charles Mitchell" in Wandsworth, London in Aug 1893...just 2 months after the birth certificate in the quote above was filled out. This school admission records also had birth dates. And lo and behold, this Charles Mitchell was born on 9/19/1885, and his father was John Mitchell. BINGO! Found the right Charles Mitchell. Their address was listed as Albert House, Albert Bridge, Wandworth. So Elizabeth Mitchell's family was living in Wandsworth 2 months after my great grandfather's birth; not Fulham or Hammersmith like I had believed for the last 28 years! That is valuable info. Besides birth dates, this admission form also shows previous schools attended. And to my great excitement, as I'm looking at the school registration form, I see that one boy, and few rows down from my Charles Mitchell, previously attended a school called "Green Lane". So I look it up on google and this old maps of London site http://www.oldmapsonline.org/map/nls/101436484 and sure enough, there is and was a nearby Green Lane! This almost 3 decade old little mystery is finally solved."
11-14-2020: "As I research this [Wandsworth] area, I haven't been able to find the actual location of where my great great great grandfather John Rintoul Mitchell and family's lived...where this "Albert House", Albert Bridge Rd, sometimes just shortened to Albert Rd, in the Battersea section of Wandsworth, was located. John Rintoul Mitchell was a newspaper editor from 1870 to 1897. I found this document and it has been quite educational in helping me get familiar with the area where my John Rintoul Mitchell and family lived in 1893. https://www.ucl.ac.uk/bartlett/archi...ersea_park.pdf This quote made me lol. "A short story by P. G. Wodehouse about a police constable whose beat covers a stretch of the mansion flats in Prince of Wales Drive describes the inhabitants—the ‘cliff-dwellers’: Authors, musicians, newspaper men, actors, and artists are the inhabitants of these mansions. A child could control them. They assault and batter nothing but pianos; they steal nothing but ideas; they murder nobody except Chopin and Beethoven. Not through these shall an ambitious young constable achieve promotion. another informative quote about the inhabitants ...built between 1892 and 1902. Flats of this type evidently now appealed to a growing section of London’s younger middle classes whose work and social milieu required them to be close to the West End, but whose modest means suppressed any qualms about living south of the river. One developer told the Park Commissioners in 1892 that he had ‘several members of good families anxious to become tenants’ of his blocks.' This was John Rintoul Mitchell's situation. He worked in the newspaper/Pall Mall district on the North side of the River, but probably couldn't afford to live on the north side near his work. Going across the Albert Bridge on the south side in Battersea, provided a short commute and affordable housing."
12-13-2020: From anthrogenica.com "Using my stats from this post https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post727624 ~12500 Samples in the FTDNA y dna database identify England as the country of origin for their paternal line; 3 of them are on my paternal line with a shared ancestor living 1100-1250 AD timeframe. There were approximately 9 million males in England in 1850, and let’s say another ~3.5 million men of English descent in US, Canada, Australia etc at this time...probably more but let’s be conservative and keep the math simple. So ~12,500 samples from descendants of ~12,500,000 men in 1850. That equates to ~3000 men on earth that share my paternal line MRCA living around 1175 AD. So I have to believe they are out there waiting to be discovered." In just a few short months I would find one of them.
03-28-2021: On anthrogenica.com "On Friday I logged into ancestry.com to check to see if my father had any new matches. I saw this 110cM match. I assumed it would be a maternal match as they usually are, but it also matched my father's paternal half sister and paternal half niece. I wasn't too excited because over 90% of these matches turn out to be paternal grandmother matches. But to delight there were no shared matches to any of my father's many paternal grandmother matches. In case you aren't familiar with it, 110cM is a pretty close match and 86cM largest segment implies it's a relatively recent match. The match had a small online tree, and I began to work of fleshing it out via my own research. This match has ancestors from Germany, Denmark, England, Scotland, and Ireland. One of our 4 shared matches is 100% Irish, and the other 3 matches have lines going back to Ireland. Try as I may, I was unable to find any shared ancestors between the 4 matches. Time wise, the shared ancestor has to be at least 4 generations back on the match's line. Otherwise the ancestors are born too late to be/or be related to the mystery man. There is only a limited number of possibilities if its 110cM and at least 4 generations back...For first time, this looks solvable.
03-31-2021: From anthrogenica.com "Blaine Bettinger has stats for the largest segment for many of these. https://thegeneticgenealogist.com/20...hared-segment/ Taken at face value, then it means this match descends from the mystery man, his half sibling, his parents, or his grandparents, or possibly his great grandparents." It would turn out to be his parents.
04-14-2021: From anthrogenica.com "this new 110cM match does share a match to my father/aunt that has Atkins line from from Ireland (Atkins is the surname my Elizabeth Margaret Mitchell, great great grandmother used on a 1913 marriage certificate...indicated she was a widow on the certificate), but I've never found any evidence that she married an Atkins man). Again, due to the limited available Irish records, I haven't been able to trace this line very far back (early/mid 1800s). Also, I haven't found the Atkins surnames in the 110cM matches' ancestry."
Didn't know it at the time, but this was the point where I had the clue that would finally solve the mystery.
04-17-2021: posted on anthrogenica "The 110cM match has ancestry from Czech Rep, Denmark, England, Germany, Ireland, N. Ireland, probably Scotland (via N. Ireland) The four +20cM matches with 110cM match have ancestry from:
1. England, Ireland
2. England, Ireland, Scotland
3. England, Greece, Ireland, Scotland
4. 100% Ireland.
So the common denominator in all 6 matches appears to be Ireland. Was there some group in Ireland that didn't immigrate much to the US? Only thing I can think of is a family from a group that didn't have an economic incentive to immigrate...Anglo-Irish?"
At the time of this post (Jul 2022), I'm not 100% sure, but it appears my paternal line was Anglo-Irish.
06-05-2021: "Update: I've gone through all of my father's, paternal half aunt's and paternal half first cousin's matches from 19.99cM down to 15.5cM at ancestry.com, and many more more below this. In total I've manually checked over 14,000 matches. In doing so I found a total of 12 matches to this 110cM match first mentioned in post 225. 4 are >20cM matches (SA, EG1, JW, ,EG2) and 8 are below this threshold (K1, MK, KS, PH, DA, JK, NR, EA)...looking at the 12 matches above, I was able to establish that my paternal grandfather shared at a minimum of 162 cM with this 110cM match (shares 110cM with my father). Armed with this information...and within the limits of this longest segment study https://thegeneticgenealogist.com/20...hared-segment/...I am left with one option. This 110cM match to my father (at least 162cM with my paternal grandfather) is my paternal grandfather's 2 cousin once removed, or my father's 3rd cousin. In other words, one of 8 sets of great great grandparents of 110cM match are the parents of my mystery man." This turned out to be true, but this 110cM match had an unknown non paternal event (NPE), so none of the ancestors shown in his tree were my ancestors.
08-08-2021: From anthrogenica "Interesting recent development: Quick summary: As mentioned above, my father's recent 110cM match on ancestry, shares another ancestry.com match with my father and paternal aunt that has an "Atkins" surname in their recent ancestry. Comparing 110cM match's "on paper" family tree with the Recent Atkins Surname Ancestry match "on paper" family tree, shows no shared ancestry going back 4 generations. No big deal as the shared ancestor could be further back. However, over the weekend I corresponded with the Atkins match. Turns out the Atkins match shares 722cM with my father's 110cM match. Implication is one of these matches' genealogical tree isn't aligning with their paper trail based tree. At 722cM shared between them, 110cM & RASA have to share an ancestor no more than 3 generations back. I would estimate that 110cm & Atkins match are Half first cousins, and both descend from the same grandparent (only 1 grandparent shared, if they are half first cousins). Now I have to be careful of "confirmation bias", as I've been looking to make sense of the aforementioned "Atkins" surname for decades. But one possibility is the 110cM match actually has an Atkins paternal ancestor via an NPE. In genetics, a non-paternity event (also known as misattributed paternity, not parent expected, or NPE) is when someone who is presumed to be an individual's father is not in fact the biological father. Of course, the reverse could be true i.e. 110cM match paper trail is correct and the RASA match paper trail is incorrect. There is a man in this Atkins line ancestry who could be a potential candidate to be my mystery man, paternal line great great grandfather. Wilfred Charles Atkins-WCA (1866-1897)...4 years older than my Elizabeth Margaret Mitchell-EMM great great grandmother, born in 1870. WCA's father, Charles Atkins was born in Ireland in 1838, so that would explain all the Irish matches on my father's 86cM chromosome 11 segment. WCA's mother was born in Kent, England. WCA was born in (Hackney)/lived in/died in (Lambeth) London, and listed his occupation as "journalist" on his marriage license in 1888 and the 1891 census. Elizabeth Margaret Mitchell's father was also a journalist, so there may be some connection there. So if WCA was the mystery man, he was having an extra marital affair with my EMM great great grandmother. That could explain why no father was listed on my great grandfather's birth certificate. WCA died in Lambeth, London in 1897 at age 31. It appears he had no children with his wife...none that I could find. If WCA & EMM had a long term relationship or at least stayed on contact until his death, it may explain why EMM listed her name as the widow, "Margaret Wilhelmina Atkins" on her 1913 marriage license. If the above hypothesis is true; from a shared dna perspective, the 110cM and Atkin matches to my father would be his 3rd cousin once removed (3C1R). On the Blaine T. Bettinger Chart in this thread, 3CR1 range from 0-192cM. As I mentioned in post 240, there is an example of a 4th cousin relationship with a 82cM largest segment. On the chart, 4th cousins range from 0-139cM. So it's not unreasonable to assume a 3C1R could share a 86cM largest segment (86cM is the largest shared segment between my father and the 110cM match). All this is conjecture at this point, but it's a good working hypothesis for the moment, as a lot of puzzle pieces appear to fit together." This hypothesis would turn out to be true.
08-09-2021: "While I don’t have proof, I may have just solved the mystery. Got more info last night which indicates the shared connection between the Atkins and 110cM match is on the Atkins line...Atkins match to my father and 110cM match to my father match are probably 1st cousins once removed to each other (722cM shared). Blaine Bettinger (BB ) chart has 1CR1 at 102-980cM. 110cM match is probably a 3rd cousin match to my father (110cM) and my paternal aunt (104cM) BB chart 3C range is 0-234cM, average = 73cM, longest segment = 135cM, my father has 86cM shared segment. 110cM match is probably a 3rd cousin once removed to my paternal half cousin (31cM) BB chart 3C1R range is = 0-192cM, average = 48cM. Atkins match is probably a 3rd cousin once removed to my father (28cM) and paternal aunt (37cM) 3C1R range is = 0-192cM, average = 48cM. Atkins match is probably a 4th cousin to my paternal half cousin (doesn't show up as a match). BB chart has 4C range at 0-139cM, average = 35cM. The Atkins & 110cM match both descend from the same Atkins-Keane couple as they share a couple of matches that descend from this Keane line. The Atkins-Keane couple were born in the 1880s & 1890s respectively. None of the Keane siblings/cousins in the tree were old enough/lived long enough to be the mystery man, and the Keane uncle had been in Australia for 20 years, so he's not a good candidate. Keane's mother was a Bryant from Buckinghamshire (no brothers or uncles known), but I'm going to need Irish ancestors for this to work, so that line isn't looking promising. On the Atkins line there 4 men who descend from an Atkins man born in Ireland, and are the right age to be the mystery man. The eldest son (father of the Atkins-Keane man) immigrated to Australia in 1881 so he's out of the running. The 2nd son doesn't show up with the rest of the family in the 1871 or 1881 census when he was 11 and 21 years old. Not sure why. But a family tree says he also immigrated to Australia, but I haven't been able to nail down when. There's a good chance he went with his brother when he was 21 years old in 1881. 3rd son is a possibility. Born in 1864, got married in London area in 1897. 4th son 1866-1897, is my odds on favorite. He's closest in age to my great great grandmother (b 1870), and had an occupation (journalist) that would have made it more likely for her to cross paths with him. Plus he was the only son that was dead when my great great grandmother referred to herself as the widow Atkins in 1913. Due to the 86cM largest segment shared between my father and the 110cM match, I can't go back any further generations and make it work. So the possibilities are rather limited...which is a good thing.
08-10-2021: "Got additional info from a very helpful ancestry.com member tonight. None of my 3 paternal kits at ancestry, match these 2 close Keane matches (both the 110cM and Atkins match share matches to the 2 Keane matches, but neither show up as matches to my 3 paternal line kits). Thus it appears the Atkins line is the only viable option for how we are related...more confirmation of my working hypothesis."
08-20-2021: "While I haven't been able to get beyond this William Atkins b 1812 in Wicklow, Ireland, he may have left for England between his birth and 1851, when shows up in Kent, England. The economic situation in the mid 19th century (e.g. potato famine), may have forced him to seek better opportunities in England (His occupation was listed as police constable in the 1851 England census records). Two Atkin/Atkins families in Ireland I've been researching both have Anglo-Irish Roots, and appeared to be on the Royalist side during the English Civil War. If my line is related to either of these lines, then that may in part explain why there was little immigration to the US during the 17th and 18th centuries. Atkins Family of Firville, County Cork, Ireland; and Atkin Family of Leadinton, near Youghal, County Cork, both appear to arrived in the 1600s. The former was from Staffordshire or East Yorkshire and first went to county Kerry after 1660, then moved to Firville, Cork ~1678. The patriarch of the family was a Royalist in the English Civil War and may have been rewarded for loyalty to the King with lands in Ireland by Charles II upon his restoration to the throne in 1660. The Atkin of Leadinton family originated in Old Cleeve, Somerset, England. One source said the family fled from Somerset to Ireland around 1642 when the Parliamentarian forces took over the area and were mistreating royalists there. Their patriarch died in county Cork in 1642. Not sure if I'm related to either family at this point, but I do believe my y-dna line may have to cross back from Ireland into England sometime after 1200 AD (TMRCA with branch that appears to have stayed in England)."
08-21-2021: Iain McDonald, an astrophysicst, and genetic genealogical hobbyist, developed a dating method for estimating the age of y-dna branches. He graciously looked at my branch data. These are the results for the R1b-FGC12378 et al. > FGC123401 et al. > FGC12384 et al. branch i.e. the Mitchell/Atkins, Adamthwaite-Guess TMRCA
Combined Central estimate: 1286 CE, Combined 68.3% confidence interval: 1162 -- 1395 CE, Combined 95.0% confidence interval: 1028 -- 1486 CE, Combined 99.5% confidence interval: 894 -- 1556 CE. In June 2022, the beta version of FTDNA's discover tool will estimate a this date at 1243 CE.
And for R1b-FGC12378 et al. > FGC123401 et al. > FGC12384 et al. > FGC47883 et al branch i.e. the Adamthwaite and Guess TMRCA: Combined Central estimate: 1616 CE, Combined 68.3% confidence interval: 1519 -- 1695 CE, Combined 95.0% confidence interval: 1408 -- 1753 CE, Combined 99.5% confidence interval: 1296 -- 1778 CE. In June 2022, the beta version of FTDNA's discover tool will estimate a this date at 1650 CE.
08-25-2021: "Good news. Just ordered an FTDNA Y-111 marker test for a paternal line descendant of this Atkins line, and there's a chance another descendant also might be interested in testing. Fingers crossed." The test arrived in London on 9/10/2021, and was in the lab in Houston for analysis on 9/27/2021.
09-03-2021: "Couple of weeks ago I ordered Wilfred Atkins' death certificate. He was actually 30 years and 11 months old when he died. His occupation was listed as "Journalist", and he died of pneumonia at home, 118 Stockwell Park Rd, Lambeth, London. Interestingly, the informant was not his wife, Margaret Smart Atkins. Rather it was George K Jones who was "Present-at-the-death". George also lived at 118 Stockwell Park Rd. I've seen a few GRO death certificates, and they will list multiple informants on them, so it appears Margaret Smart Atkins was out of the picture in 1897. I can find no records for her after the 1891 census, so I'm not sure if she died, or if they were separated/divorced. If Margaret Smart died/got divorced before Oct 1892, then if the hypothesis is true, my great great grandmother, Elizabeth Margaret Mitchell would not have been having an affair with a married man, but rather a relationship with a widower/divorcé."
09-05-2021: "Best I can tell, if my paternal line is via this William Atkins b 1812 in Wicklow, Ireland, he may have been of the Anglo-Irish working class. I know he was in Dublin in 1838 (birth of son) and in Hackney, London in 1841 (baptism of 2nd son and 1st daughter). He doesn’t appear in the 6 Jun 1841 census, but he does appear on a Church of England Baptismal record in Hackney, London, dated 23 Jul 1841; so he may have come to England between 1838 and Summer 1841. His occupation was listed as police constable on the Baptismal record; which may indicate he was in the working class, or he was a younger son of a middle class family and had no chance at inheriting any family wealth. His wife was born in Wiltshire, England, but I’m assuming they met and married in Ireland prior to 1838. There was a severe economic recession in 1839-42, so that may have been why he left Ireland for England."
10-08-2021, 08:46 PM: "111 marker results came in early today. Mr D. Atkins is a 110 out of 111 STR markers match my father. In other words, I just got confirmation that the 128 year old Family Mystery has been solved! This dna journey took 9 years 2 months from when my father got his dna test results back, a 67 marker test in Aug 2012. It appears Wilfred Charles Atkins b 1866 was my paternal line great great grandfather...
Let my journey, as seen in this thread full of dead ends and red herrings, provide inspiration to others with similar genealogical brick walls. In this thread back in Jan 2019, another Atkins man graciously took a dna test on my behalf. That test and associated hypothesis (mentioned in post 1 paragraph 14 a and post 147 came out negative and was very frustrating at the time (post 153).
I spent so much time focused on England. Little did I know that my paternal line would go back to Ireland in the 1600s to 1840…although I was getting continuous hints via autosomal matches (as discussed in post 189, post 200; and I wondered if my U152 line was from some U152 desolate area like Ireland or Wales (idea first mentioned at bottom of post 136), as I had no close y dna matches.
If you look at post #1 in this thread (paragraph 14 a), I mentioned the Atkins surname. I just didn’t have enough info back then. But eventually, over the next 6.5 years the pieces came together.
Ironically my Family Motto on our coat of arms is “Successus Perseverando” translated “Success through Perseverance”. But honestly I would be remiss if I didn’t also give credit to prayers being answered. That and a man and 2 nice ladies in New Zealand, and a helpful fellow in London. Without their test results and willingness to answer my messages, this wouldn’t have happened. I guess my general advice would be “be polite, be persistent in seeking info and assistance but don’t be pushy”. Respect the privacy of others especially when it comes to dna testing. But offer to pay for a test and explain that they can remain anonymous if desired, and they may be more willing to help."
10-13-2021: Ordered FTDNA BigY 700 test for Mr. D Atkins.
10-21-2021: Ordered FTDNA Family Finder test for Mr. D Atkins.
11-20-2021: Summary of the "Completion of a y-dna journey: It took 9 years but I’ve finally arrived at my terminal SNPs.
Nov 2012: I learned I was U152>L2 via FTDNA’s old deep clade test. I wasn’t expecting that result. FTDNA had already predicted I was R-M269 and I figured I would be L21 or U106 based on British ancestry.
Dec 2012: Via single SNP testing I learned I was L2>Z49>Z142. I had joined the FTDNA U152 Project and was assigned with about 12 other men under the Z142 section.
On Nov 16th 2013 I ordered the FTDNA BigY500 test, and the results came out in March 2014
Mar 2014: I learned I was Z142>Z12222>FGC12378 along with an unknown Spaniard from Valencia (the 1st identified FGC12378 man)
3/28/2014: My father's BigY500 results were completed
4/12/2014: Full Genome Corporation (FGC) completed analysis of BigY500, and named SNPs FGC12378/79/80/81/82/83 (among many other previously unnamed SNPs), and determined that 1000 Genome sample HG01777 from Valencia, Spain was also positive for FGC12378/79/80/81/82/83. Thus, 4/12/2014 is FGC12378 SNP block's day of discovery
4/12/2014 is also the day of discovery for FGC12384-FGC12401 SNPs. but it would be ~Sep 2014 before the FGC12401 et al. SNP block (FGC12401-405, Y9080, FGC47900, and eventually 7 other SNPs) would be identified via Roberts' BigY500 test.
4/13/2014. Richard Rocca discovers that 2 samples from the Genome of the Netherlands project also share FGC12378-FGC12383 SNPs
4/18/2014: Got Yfull analysis of BigY500 results. I assume, not knowing FGC had already named them 6 days earlier, Yfull provides their own names for some of these SNPs. FGC12381/Y3140, FGC12383/Y3141, FGC12379/Y3142, FGC12380/Y3143, FGC12382/Y3144. Note that Yfull didn't provide a name for FGC12378 at the time. Yfull would name this SNP block Y3140. In later analysis, FGC12378 was called Y10987 by yfull. Not sure why yfull didn't just use FGC12378.
~Sep 2014: 6 months later, a BigY 500 tester who shared the FGC12401 SNP block with my father appeared, so now I was FGC12378>FGC12401. This tester’s y dna ancestry was from Scotland, but the STR genetic distance was 14 or so. Our shared ancestor probably lived around 1000 BC. It would be another year before the next FGC12401 match appeared.
Early 2015: Via the old Ysearch and old FTDNA TiP tool (before they filtered/restricted results) I identified a man that could potentially be a relatively close match (within the last 1500 years). I contacted Mr Guess and he agreed to do additional testing to see if my hypothesis was true. https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....ll=1#post99260
Sep 6 2015: I got confirmation that he was positive for FGC12378>FGC12401; the 3rd man to test positive for FGC12401. https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post107131
Sep 30 2015: Mr Guess ordered the FGC Y Elite test
Nov 25 2015: I ordered the same test for my father.
Jun 16 2016: It was a long wait, but Mr Guess’ results arrived and it identified him and my father as sharing a large SNP block eventually known as FGC12401>FGC12384 et al. https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post163782
Sep 30th 2016: A 3rd man, Mr Adamthwaite, joined FGC12384 et al, via the FTDNA Z49 test result. His paternal ancestry went back to Westmorland England. https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post189851
Mar 16 2017: Mr Adamthwaite’s BigY500 test results identified him as sharing the FGC12384>FGC47883 et al., with Mr Guess.
Sep 2016 - Nov 19 2021: I’m stuck at FGC12401>FGC12384, which Iain McDonald dated at forming around 1286 AD.
Nov 19th-20th 2021: My father’s BigY block tree has been updated (Tree only you can see when you view your BigY). It shows my father and Mr Atkins under FGC12384>FGC12390 block.
11-22-2021: Mr D Atkins BigY 700 results came out. His results create the FGC12384>FGC12390 et al branch. Per 8/21/2021 entry above, the formation date for this Branch is estimated to ~1243-1286 AD, and the TMRCA is known to be 1838 AD.
11-23-2021: "I could be wrong, but I don't have a "warm fuzzy" (A good impression; a feeling of comfort or trust), that my Atkins line descends from one of the above lines. I guess because the above lines were typically of the "landed gentry" class. And my William Atkins was employed with the rail roads in England in various capacities (constable, inspector, ticket collector)...just doesn't strike me as likely in such a class conscious society as 19th century Britain & Ireland, but I guess anything is possible. My impression is he's more of the Anglo-Irish working class. Interesting/related quotes on this subject from 19th century southern/Rep of Ireland. One-third of Protestant brides married British military grooms...in Dublin appears to be that the decline [in the Anglo-Irish/Protestant population] followed from the decline of manufacturing in Dublin and also from the decline of working class sectarianism as the nineteenth century progressed. The latter phenomenon allowed for increased intermarriage. Another factor was the large number of young working class Protestant women who married soldiers. The skilled Protestant working class community was, it seems, extremely mobile. The 1911 census reveals that In Inchicore, one of the few areas where the Protestant population was growing, only 23 per cent of the Protestant households that had featured in the 1901 census were still in the area. Many of those working in Inchicore were employed in the railway engineering works. It is unlikely that in depressed Dublin very many of these skilled workers moved elsewhere in Dublin. Protestant decline in Dublin, apparent since the 1820s, were social and economic. https://www.quora.com/What-happened-...r-independence
My William Atkins (b 1812 in Wicklow) line left Dublin sometime between 1838 (birth of his son in Dublin) and 1840 (baptism of 2nd son and a daughter in England). Mr. Atkins (one who did the dna test for me) FTDNA family finder matches, includes a paternal line match who has a Jane Atkin/Atkins in his tree. Jane Atkins b ~1816, was married in Dublin in 1834, and her father, Paul Atkin (1770-1851), was a British soldier (British 1st co, 5th battalion Artillery...not sure where he was born), who was stationed in Ireland and married a local Irish woman (just like the common situation described in the quote above). At the time of of Paul's daughter's marriage his occupation was "WEIGHMASTER" In his 1862 will probate, a son, William Atkin is identified as the executor. In an 1863 update, it is changed to one of Paul Atkin's daughters. When I first looked at this, it was very promising. My Mr. Atkins cousin has a known paternal line Atkins ancestor that was married in Dublin in 1834; and my line had a son (my great great great grandfather Charles Atkins) born in Dublin in 1838. My line has a William Atkins, the matches' line has a William Atkin, both are probably close in age based on the sister's birth circa 1816. There are a couple of hiccups though. The William Atkin in the 1862 Will probate is listed as residing in Dublin, and his occupation was as a custom house officer (Ironically my Williams Atkins son, Charles Atkins was also a Customs House Shipping Agent in 1871 London census). To my knowledge, my William Atkins hadn't lived in Dublin since ~1840. Maybe that was his address when the will was originally drawn up at an earlier date e.g. if the will was drawn up in the late 1830s. For whatever reason, this William Atkin was unavailable/unable to act as the executor in 1862 and that job was reassigned to William's sister, Lucy (who lived in Ireland) in 1863. So, I'm not sure what to make of all of this at the moment. EDIT: Found this on, Paul Atkin. in 1848, he was the weighmaster at "Kingstown Harbor" in Dublin and listed as Paul Atkins (with an "s" at the end). https://www.google.com/books/edition...J?hl=en&gbpv=0"
03-17-2022: "Today, my father and I shall celebrate St Patrick's day with more gusto than in the past, as this is the first St. Patrick’s Day we have experienced after learning our paternal line goes back to Dublin (1838), and Wicklow, Ireland (1812)."
06-23-2022: "Efforts continue to break through my William Atkins b 1812, in Wicklow, Ireland brick wall. I have no idea where in Wicklow, he was born, but I have gathered some related info on the situation in Wicklow and Ireland in general. During the 1600s migration to Ireland exceeded emigration from Ireland. Perhaps 250,000 English, Welsh, and Scottish Protestants settled in Ireland (Canny, Smout)...Between 1700 and the American Revolution, movement from Ireland greatly exceeded migration to Ireland, and North America prevailed among overseas destinations. In the period 1700 to 1775 perhaps 25,000 Britons settled in Ireland (Canny, Landsman). https://www.encyclopedia.com/interna...h-century-1845
Based on the above simple numbers, there's roughly a 90% chance one's protestant paternal line came to Ireland during the 1600s vs 1700s. However, a good chunk of this migration is related to Ulster (NE Ireland), rather than Leinster (SE Ireland where Wicklow is located). Also, Wicklow had the largest Protestant community outside Ulster (over 20% of the population) who were well integrated into local society. A significant small number of the [1798] rebellion’s leaders (and followers) in that county were Protestants: small farmers, miners, textile workers and army deserters. Wicklow’s economy was growing steadily in the 1790s. Industries contributing to this growth were mining, textiles, wool and forestry. Apart from possessing one of the strongest Anglican communities, a large proportion of Protestant labour was imported to work the mines and manufacture flax and linen. So my Atkins line could have been a more recent arrival. Wicklow in the 1790s had a higher percentage of Protestants than any other county in Ireland, excluding Ulster, while Wexford had the next highest. The Protestant community in Wexford were mainly found in the northern regions of the county and Gorey rivalled Carnew in south Wicklow as the most Protestant region in both counties...Both south west Wicklow and Wexford had few towns and few industries, with the result that the rural population, both Protestant and Catholic, were almost totally engaged in agriculture, with many strong Protestant farming settlements on the western slopes of the Wicklow hills....members of the Protestant farming community in Wicklow and Wexford were more independent of landlord patronage. https://heritage.wicklowheritage.org...1798_rebellion
So, not much to go on. Long established (1600s) protestant small farmers in the south of Wicklow, or more recent (~1790s) labor arrivals from Britain in central/northern Wicklow? Because William Atkins was living in Dublin in 1838 (just north of Wicklow), and employed in London in 1841 as a rail road constable (as opposed to a being a farmer like most folks in South Wicklow), I'm inclined to think William Atkins' unknown father arrived in the late 1700s as part of this "imported" Protestant labor mentioned above.
Info on local mining. in June of 1787 John Howard-Kyan entered into a contract with Charles Roe and others from Macclesfield [Cheshire, England] to work all the mines for 41 years. Charles Roe and his partners worked the mines through their company – the Associated Irish Mine Company (AIMC)...Intense rivalry between the Irish owned Hibernian Mine Company (in West Avoca) and the English controlled Associated Irish Mine Company (in East Avoca) was to become a dominant theme in their two close-knit histories. No doubt the bad feelings between the two companies, and their ethnically different workforces, reached a peak during the civil unrest in Ireland that led up to the abortive Irish Rebellion of 1798. Prior to the rebellion both mining companies had raised their own private militia and fitted them out with uniforms and arms.https://dxqn7p4scykcf.cloudfront.net...of_Wicklow.pdf. ...the arming of miners to serve in the AIMC yeomanry companies. Militarisation of AIMC miners was certainly established by 1794...The [AIMC] militia continued in existence up to 1808. https://mhti.org/uploads/2/3/6/6/236...ne_company.pdf
Who knows? Maybe William Atkins' father was employed in the AIMC private militia, and that's how William ended up as a rail road constable...like father, like son...Interesting side note: The above mentioned Charles Roe who founded the Associated Irish Mine Company (AIMC), "started mining copper at Coniston in the Lake District, in 1756 and around the same time at Alderley Edge, Cheshire." Coniston is about 35 miles west of above mentioned Westmorland, England. He also has mines in N. Wales.
Also, "as with the Cornish who worked with the Irish in mines across eighteenth and nineteenth century Ireland, including those in Wicklow that were almost exclusively captained by Cornishmen… We have examples of people moving from places such as Cumberland, Wales, Ayrshire, Devon and Cornwall to work at our [Wicklow] mines," https://irishandcumbrian.wordpress.c...ancestors/amp/ The Associated Irish Mining Company then operated there to 1816. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abra...ls_(geologist)"
